Laurence Laroche: “There is nothing irrational or sacrificial about quotas”

At what point in your career did you recognize the importance of workplace equality?

From the very beginning of my career, the issue was there, but at the time I didn’t know how to make sense of it. It was only with the benefit of hindsight, years later, that I realized I had faced obstacles as a woman. For example, in the early 1990s, when I wanted to work in a factory, I was told, “Ma’am, you can’t be serious!” “But you just got married…” or, worse yet, “The guys won’t want a woman as their boss.” I went to the factory anyway—not in production, but in management control.

More often than not, the obstacles to women’s careers aren’t barriers placed in the way of their ambitions; rather, they’re hurdles they must navigate around… This wastes time, and besides, by constantly having to find workarounds, you end up not holding the key positions that lead to promotions. So you have to muster all your courage and strength to close that gap. When I applied in 2012 for a position as industrial director at Saint-Gobain, I was told, “But you’ve never been a plant manager!” It’s a double whammy: I was prevented from doing it when the opportunity arose, and now I’m being criticized for not having done it. I didn’t let it get to me and I took the job. But that inevitably adds pressure.

Ensuring that women and men have equal opportunities throughout their careers is just as important as ensuring gender parity in leadership positions. This affects the conditions under which people take on these roles and the level of confidence they feel in doing so.

You founded Saint-Gobain’s first women’s network. What makes you believe that networks are useful for advancing gender equality?

I truly believe in the power of networks. It allows us to move from the individual to the collective: sexism, the glass ceiling, the imposter syndrome—these aren’t just a single woman’s personal problems; they’re the reality for all women, and they’re the responsibility of the entire company and society as a whole. That’s the primary impact of networking—helping women realize that the issue is systemic. That’s already a first step toward bringing about change.

The network is also a place where you can ask candid questions: Why do women ask for promotions less often? Why don’t they negotiate their pay? As for me, the first time I negotiated, I was 45! You don’t talk about that unless you’re surrounded by other women who say that—now that we’re talking about it—they, too, never thought to negotiate, didn’t dare to, or were afraid that doing so would make them look bad.

What role do men play in these networks? And in the fight for equality more broadly?

Raising awareness among men is key if we want to make progress. Every man is tempted to say, “But I’m not like that.” They need to realize that sometimes, even unconsciously, they engage in manterrupting and mansplaining, and that they have ingrained patterns of everyday sexism… Gender inequality is a system from which men benefit in many ways.

Sexism is often addressed from the victims’ perspective. For example, we can quantify the number of people who are subjected to inappropriate remarks or face inappropriate behavior. It would also be interesting to take a closer look at where these remarks and behaviors come from. They certainly don’t come from all men, but we must all realize that in everyday life, acts of everyday sexism are not just the concern of those who experience them, but also of those who commit them and those who tolerate them.

How do you respond to those who are skeptical of quotas for women in leadership positions?

Quotas are a very good thing. They’re the only way to really make a difference. It worked for boards of directors, and it has to work for the Rixain Act. I’m speaking the truth: today, a 50-year-old man shortlisted for a high-profile job will face the reality that, given equal qualifications, a woman will be preferred. That doesn’t mean men aren’t being appointed anymore.

This means two things: first, there are more competitors; men are no longer the only ones competing in the race, and when they are, we do what is necessary to ensure that women also take part; second, when there’s a tie at the finish line, the decision is made to ensure balance among the teams. There is nothing irrational about this, nor is there anything sacrificial. Rather, it was the previous situation that was strange—when no one found it odd that only men occupied the upper echelons of organizations.

What are your hopes for the future and for the next generations?

I hope we will systematically and rigorously educate all our children and young people about gender bias. The latest study by the High Council for Gender Equality reveals that young people are not inherently less sexist than other generations. There are even indicators pointing to a resurgence of machismo among young men, such as the fact that nearly a quarter of those aged 25–34 believe that one must sometimes be violent to command respect. As for young women, I’ve noticed that while they have a better understanding of harassment and gender-based violence, they may harbor some illusions about the glass ceiling. We need to tell them that the fight isn’t over and that they shouldn’t wait until they have their first child to start worrying about advancing their careers at the same pace as men. They need to shake off the imposter syndrome as soon as possible, negotiate their pay, and not keep a low profile when they’re cut off more often than their fair share during meetings!